Winds Game Meeting–Full Discussion
Talking about Ancient lore and Adventurelog:
The storyline, the start of your adventure and the main source of the controversial “ancient lore” .. that’s a important subject to clear too
.Muratus del Mur.:I want you to understand how I do things
.Muratus del Mur.:let’s put it like this:
.Muratus del Mur.:I have certain ideas I want pointed out, but these ideas don’t have a specific for yet.
.Muratus del Mur.:I can turn almost anything in such way that will point those ideas out
.Muratus del Mur.:MD is a holder for those ideas, its built around them but its not built entirely out of them
.Muratus del Mur.:for example
.Muratus del Mur.:how the story development went, back years ago
.Muratus del Mur.:ady, the “storyteller” put up the scenery, I put the main nodes of the story where things should be in a precise way and when things should be a specific thing …but other than that, he wrote the
.Muratus del Mur.:story and created his own imaginary world to fill in the gasps
.Muratus del Mur.:I am no writer
.Muratus del Mur.:I contacted him for that purpose
.Muratus del Mur.:to put in nice for what I had in raw form
.Muratus del Mur.:so that’s why I am now against “ancient lore”, that is part of the story that is entirely made up of him, its disclosing ideas we both talked but puts them in a way i never agreed to
.Muratus del Mur.:him as a writer, could never stop what I asked him to do ONCE
.Muratus del Mur.:unlike probably any other game, md is not a bunch of fantasy that sounds good
.Muratus del Mur.:this method applied to artworks too, like this:
.Muratus del Mur.:for example when I “order” a new land, the artist knows what ideas to follow, what is the general feeling of the land, what things i want in it and so on BUT is him who puts in all the details and map setup
.Muratus del Mur.:not me
.Muratus del Mur.:he is building the map the exact locations and all
.Muratus del Mur.:I care only about certain things
.GlorDamar.:true, I’ll vouch for that
.Muratus del Mur.:things that will make sense only when you look at the comparison of the lands and their so called ballance
.Muratus del Mur.:I don’t care how the artist does his stuff there
.Muratus del Mur.:if it’s looking good, it’s good
.Muratus del Mur.:I will come in after and use what he did there and turn them into clickable items and even integrate them into a story or whatever
.Muratus del Mur.:a long as the main point is fulfilled and they are in “harmony” with the land I wanted, they are good
.Muratus del Mur.:same I did with the initial story
.Muratus del Mur.:I wanted some things pointed out, what came along with those things is also a great story but that story is the holder nothing more
.Muratus del Mur.:I actually encouraged Ady to write a book of his own using all those things
.Muratus del Mur.:I needed just what I asked him, every additional word is bad for what I need
.Muratus del Mur.:I needed QUESTIONS, he was pressed by players to give answers
.Muratus del Mur.:I planned what i needed and expressed it through others ART , art for which I paid always
Innocence:Well… without ruining the atmosphere of what you want, can you tell us why answers are… bad?
Arcturus:The questions were for us To explore…
.Muratus del Mur.:the questions, are the key to understanding, not the answers
.Muratus del Mur.:the right questions will keep your mind active in the right direction
.Muratus del Mur.:the answers are the death of the question, the end of a path, I want you to be on that path not to end it immediately
Arcturus:Kind of along the lines of, The Journey is more Important than the Destination right?
Lightsage:Stop playing WOW for a month and you won’t feel urged again
.Muratus del Mur.:no, the reason is not addiction!
Lightsage:No, but it’s a side effect
Lightsage:The questions stay
.Muratus del Mur.:the search for the answer is the key to progress not the answer itself
[22/05/09 03:19] Guybrush Threepwood:Mur, I don’t mean to say that this is the conclusion I have come to, but it what you’re saying could sound a bit like. “I am creating my own world, using my own ideas, anything else is just extra.”
[22/05/09 03:19] Windy:Questions make you seek outside yourself.
[22/05/09 03:19] .Muratus del Mur.:the question is what makes you improve, the answer just gives you peace of mind
[22/05/09 03:19] .Muratus del Mur.:there are answers, there almost always are
[22/05/09 03:20] Innocence:So… you are saying that the answers are irrelevant?
[22/05/09 03:20] Windy:I like that.
[22/05/09 03:20] .Ailith.:The learning is in the solving, not the answer (am a teacher in RL 😛)
[22/05/09 03:20] .Muratus del Mur.:just that if you find them you will lose a big point of this all
[22/05/09 03:20] Shady Jester:you can’t solve something made up by someone else
[22/05/09 03:20] .Muratus del Mur.:and ady presented answers i talked with him only to make HIM keep the story and the questions on the right track
[22/05/09 03:20] MRWander:its more what you learn by getting the answers and how it makes you grow i think
[22/05/09 03:20] .Muratus del Mur.:answers are indeed irrelevant
[22/05/09 03:20] Windy:Exactly. 🙂
[22/05/09 03:21] .Muratus del Mur.:i can prove that
[22/05/09 03:21] Shady Jester:if I read half a book, I can’t “solve” the other half
[22/05/09 03:21] Arcturus:Good Answers should only Lead to more Questions Wander
[22/05/09 03:21] Shady Jester:I can make up something, but its not a “solution”
[22/05/09 03:21] .Muratus del Mur.:and in fact, that’s the missing part of MD, the part that were supposed to be introduced later, that none of the people I worked with on md knew so far
[22/05/09 03:21] Guybrush Threepwood:Questions are important for growth, but answers can be too. After all, an answer often leads to more questions.
[22/05/09 03:22] .Muratus del Mur.:and I am introducing it as the Angiens concept …. NOTE: the word ANGIEN is made by ADY NOT BY ME, still for a purpose he didn’t knew 😀
[22/05/09 03:22] .Muratus del Mur.:so you see how i work …. and how i steal others work (as i was accused)….
[22/05/09 03:22] Arcturus:lol
[22/05/09 03:23] .SmartAlekRJ.:lol
[22/05/09 03:23] AkenEX:You do not steal you build upon right?
[22/05/09 03:23] .Kragel.:may I make my suggestion now ?
[22/05/09 03:23] .Muratus del Mur.:how else could i have you here talking about that if you didn’t think at first this is a awesome game? same with my people, how else could i have them do cool things if not give them just a part of the plan
[22/05/09 03:26] .Muratus del Mur.:now..since you are all here
[22/05/09 03:29] Innocence:Mur… I have a question, then… and I hope it has an answer because I am a little confused.
[22/05/09 03:30] Innocence:You say you don’t want answers… which, to me, means history to what occurred “before we were here.”
[22/05/09 03:31] Innocence:Khalazdad has turned Necrovion into the Sage Desert. He has become King through his story and roleplaying.
[22/05/09 03:31] Innocence:But, what if another player comes along and wants to alter that? What if he wants Necrovion to be something else?
[22/05/09 03:31] .Muratus del Mur.:inno, exactly, the ancient lore NEVER HAPPENED
[22/05/09 03:31] .Muratus del Mur.:that’s why I don’t want it also
[22/05/09 03:31] .Muratus del Mur.:there are plenty of things that happened
[22/05/09 03:31] .Muratus del Mur.:in md I mean
[22/05/09 03:31] .Muratus del Mur.:inno, ancient lore means characters like Marind, Daniel Raven, Jack Willow, etc.
[22/05/09 03:32] Lightsage:And if it never happened, what are all those buildings?
[22/05/09 03:32] .Muratus del Mur.:khal is not ancient
[22/05/09 03:32] Arcturus:The Ancient Lore was a like a Template to build on, Right? That’s kinda how I’ve always seen it
[22/05/09 03:32] .Muratus del Mur.:his story is valid, unless made up and based on ancient lore
[22/05/09 03:32] .Muratus del Mur.:my initial thought which I am sorry I didn’t do, was to start md with no memory of the past
[22/05/09 03:33] Guybrush Threepwood:So we can’t use anything we understand of history as a basis of our actions or ideas?
[22/05/09 03:33] .Muratus del Mur.:history is ok, made up history is not
[22/05/09 03:33] .Muratus del Mur.:ok let me put it like this
[22/05/09 03:33] Guybrush Threepwood:So the history of the land weapons are not good clues as to what they do or how they work?
[22/05/09 03:33] .Muratus del Mur.:MagicDuel is like a big mind …listen..
[22/05/09 03:33] Innocence:So, the “accepted” history of Wasp’s Totem is irrelevant? It doesn’t matter who built it… it matters how it is used now? Today?
[22/05/09 03:34] .Muratus del Mur.:the ancient lore, the story of Marind and so on, is the subconscious
[22/05/09 03:34] .Muratus del Mur.:its what drives behind our conscious mind
[22/05/09 03:34] .Muratus del Mur.:the mind we realize, its the lore that happens with real players over the time
[22/05/09 03:35] .Muratus del Mur.:so , act based on the history created by players, but do not act based on the ancient lore that it there to act as a foundation of this big mind
[22/05/09 03:36] .Muratus del Mur.:does this sound clearer inno?
[22/05/09 03:36] Shady Jester:so, are you saying one of us could change necrovion?
[22/05/09 03:36] Guybrush Threepwood:I’m confused, if it’s the foundation, shouldn’t things be based on it?
[22/05/09 03:36] Innocence:So, if I say that Wasp’s Tower is a conduit to another world… and enough people buy in… that’s what it will become?
[22/05/09 03:36] Windy:Like my pub for instance? Someone can expand on that idea?
[22/05/09 03:36] Arcturus:Guy, It’s like a Room that needs to be Filled
[22/05/09 03:37] Arcturus:The Lore Built the place… Now we get to do what WE will with it
[22/05/09 03:37] Innocence:If I want Necrovion to be an amusement park, and I get enough people to buy into it, that’s what it’ll be?
[22/05/09 03:37] .SmartAlekRJ.:i wouldn’t be suprised
[22/05/09 03:37] .Muratus del Mur.:no, i am trying to make a difference between “ancient lore” (story made up to start md and put the right questions) and the actual lore (story of what players do, actually do!<
[22/05/09 03:37] Shady Jester:unless it doesn’t fit with Mur’s plan, I’d guess
[22/05/09 03:38] .Muratus del Mur.:yes, IF YOU GET ENOUGH PEOPLE TO THINK THAT
[22/05/09 03:38] .Muratus del Mur.:that’s the key,
[22/05/09 03:38] .Muratus del Mur.:in md , reality is what we all see, get all to see something else and then THAT’S reality
[22/05/09 03:38] Windy:lol]
[22/05/09 03:38] Tren Salister:interesting
[22/05/09 03:38] Guybrush Threepwood:So, everything previously done and known as true can be thrown out the window?
[22/05/09 03:38] .Muratus del Mur.:not only in md actualy 😀
[22/05/09 03:38] .Muratus del Mur.:nope
[22/05/09 03:38] .Muratus del Mur.:you cant do that unless you can erase people minds 😀
[22/05/09 03:38] .Kragel.:inno more like when the construction on the MDA was going on and will continue soon because enough people believed it and worked to make it happen it DID
[22/05/09 03:39] Lightsage:Well there’s these therapeutic shocks…
[22/05/09 03:39] .Muratus del Mur.:so you cant act as if it never happened when the history says it did and people remember it
[22/05/09 03:39] Shady Jester:if I got enough people to believe Angiens didn’t exist, would they stop existing?
[22/05/09 03:39] Arcturus:Glad to know I had this all pegged right…
[22/05/09 03:39] Windy:Wow! We’ve got learning going on here! ^^
[22/05/09 03:39] .Kragel.:in the minds of those who don’t believe in them yes shady
[22/05/09 03:39] .Muratus del Mur.:BUT, ancient lore that’s made up, can be changed, because people can’t actually remember it!!, so that’s why its damaging md right now
[22/05/09 03:39] Shady Jester:but if enough people did, then they wouldn’t, is what I heard
[22/05/09 03:40] Tren Salister:Mur, can we expand the world map and create new places as players?
[22/05/09 03:40] Windy:One cannot act like Pearl Harbor didn’t happen. XD
[22/05/09 03:40] .SmartAlekRJ.:yea so you cant for instance get enough people to say the dojo doesn’t exist and think it will disappear
[22/05/09 03:40] Shady Jester:yes you can Tren…
[22/05/09 03:40] .Muratus del Mur.:Tren… it already happened , ask glor 😀
[22/05/09 03:40] Tren Salister:but how hard is it to do?
[22/05/09 03:41] Lightsage:Very, it’s a lot of work
[22/05/09 03:42] Lightsage:Wow, whole new perspective
[22/05/09 03:42] .Muratus del Mur.:I adapt, I said NO only to things that were UNREAL, I never denied things that happened
[22/05/09 03:42] .Muratus del Mur.:i do not need to make people believe in what i do , i only need to eliminate all bullshit even if that bullshit sounds awsome
[22/05/09 03:42] .Kragel.:ok so are ready to … nvm
[22/05/09 03:43] werewolfer:so in other words player can pretty much almost vhange what md is in a way
[22/05/09 03:43] Arcturus:They have already
[22/05/09 03:43] .Metal Bunny.:lol
[22/05/09 03:43] Windy:MD has changed a lot since I got here..partly my fault…partly not… *giggles*
[22/05/09 03:43] Arcturus:In lots of ways
[22/05/09 03:43] .Metal Bunny.:this entire situation is…
[22/05/09 03:44] Windy: (Mostly SageWoman’s fault XD)
[22/05/09 03:44] .Metal Bunny.:is just…
[22/05/09 03:44] .SmartAlekRJ.:the same as last year?
[22/05/09 03:44] .Metal Bunny.:lol…
[22/05/09 03:44] Tren Salister:Mur as the game owner do you have any directins you don’t want the players to take MD?
[22/05/09 03:44] .Muratus del Mur.:md has its solid structure allready, fantasy lore continued by people with whom i talked secrets can shake it, social riots can shake it, but nothing creative that you will do can